Comments on: Breaking Up the Family in the Pursuit of Uniformity

By: DJ

DJ — Tue, 10 Sep 2024 14:38:52 +0000

1. Superficial Family Unity (of Baptist Churches) Amidst the Redefinition of Marriage.

We can be a family despite theological diversity within the framework of the Bible.
But how can a family be held together, when the redefinition defies the basic God-ordained family structure between a man and a woman?

First, God’s order for society cannot be redefined because of the aberration in our culture. Exceptions do not cancel or over-rule God-given order.

Second, superficial family unity will lead to a downward spiral of other cultural aberrations infiltrating our churches. In the name of Unity, truth should not be compromised.
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2. Is our worldview culturally driven or biblically driven?

The life of Christians is not a life of conforming to our present culture, but a life of overcoming through the transforming power of God. (Romans 12:1-2)
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3. Why has Christian worldview failed to influence our post-modern culture?

Current post-modern culture in art, drama, music, science, economics, psychology, politics etc., is leading the world towards moral nihilism. It is influencing the church, and many have started reading the Bible with the lens of the prevailing culture.

Jeremy Rifkin sees the silver lining of atheism’s moral nihilism and rejoices: “We no longer feel ourselves to be guests in someone else’s home…. No set of pre-existing cosmic rules…. It is our creation now. We make the rules. We are responsible for nothing outside ourselves. We are the kingdom, and the power, and the glory”. (Algeny: A New Word-A New World)
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4. If the current cultural norms of gay/lesbians should become a norm within the church, then redefinition of gender within our Baptist Churches will be next on the agenda. A new definition is already being proposed in the secular world for pedophilia. Many researchers have begun to explore sexual interests in children via sexual abuse prevention and well-being perspectives.

As it is, Bible translations are catering to this culture.

Where are the modern translations leading us?

I find the following pdf file helpful to understand the “progression” of bible translation over the years.

https://identity-intelligence.org/content/Printable%20Bible%20Version%20Comparison%20Diagram%20and%20Chart.pdf

^^ symbol in the chart relates to “No gender-neutral language for God, moderate inclusive language for man”.

^ symbol indicates “Gender neutral language”.

“Interpretation presumes a choice, whether conscious or unconscious, between alternatives; where there are no possible alternatives, a translational equivalent is not an interpretation.”

Some of the translations try to avoid, as far as possible, the pronoun “he” for God & replaces it with “God”, though the original text uses the pronoun. They use a similar “translation” for Jesus & the Holy Spirit.
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By: Andre Weber

Andre Weber — Wed, 12 Jun 2024 07:41:22 +0000

Thank you so much for your perspective.

By: Bernard Faulhammer

Bernard Faulhammer — Tue, 28 Feb 2023 06:15:56 +0000

Your reflection is wrong. To compare differences in the doctrines you mentioned among Baptists NSW is a false comparison and opens the doors for sexual chaos, as in transgender men or women becoming pastors, gay pastors coming on retreats with their “husband” etc.
A realistic comparison would be to say that “some of us Baptists believe that God is the Triune God, others have a Oneness doctrine, some believe Jesus is the only way of salvation, and some believe that there are many ways. Some believe Jesus is a created being, others that he is a fully God and Fully man.” If that were so of course there would no longer be a “family of churches” with unity in essentials. NT Wright exposes the falsehood of your thinking. https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2014/06/n-t-wrights-argument-against-same-sex-marriage

By: Marie

Marie — Sun, 22 Jan 2023 03:41:27 +0000

Romans 1:18-32. Romans times seems much like present times to me.

By: Onesimus

Onesimus — Mon, 16 Jan 2023 13:22:15 +0000

So, whatever doctrine comes along is fine because unity uber alles?

The nature of human identity (including sexuality) is up for grabs in our postmodern culture. These issues are not simply shades of fundamentalism or liberalism. Biblical sexuality is an existential issue.

If there are no issues over which we are willing to break fellowship, then there is no called out community. We are simply extensions of the larger culture, bending to its will. There is no saltiness in a church which goes along with the cultural sins of the day to be welcoming.

By: Pip

Pip — Thu, 01 Dec 2022 21:17:49 +0000

I appreciate you writing this Mike! Painful to read though and highlights the hypocrisy and the nasty stubborn refusal to even tolerate other’s affirmation 🙁 It’s why I take a wide berth from any church. I have a gay son and he is just the best and deserves everything my other kids do!
Sickening to read comments here harping on about why to continue to reject. Made me cry and sick to my core! Thank God there are actually no gatekeepers!!

By: Kevin

Kevin — Sat, 26 Nov 2022 05:11:35 +0000

In reply to pchatty. So Mike. Do you have response to pchagty? They raised some good points. Over to you.

By: pchatty

pchatty — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 02:12:37 +0000

In reply to Michael Frost.

There is the problem Mike because the core statement of faith does cover biblical marriage & it would seem that many in NSW churches think likewise.
“d) THE DIVINE INSPIRATION OF THE SCRIPTURES The Scriptures, consisting of the sixty-six books of the Old and New Testaments, are the infallible Word of God. They were written by holy people of God inspired by the Holy Spirit and have supreme authority in all matters of faith and conduct.”
Scripture & Jesus’s teachings on marriage is very clear & has supreme authority & it would appear the majority of churches agree.

By: Michael Frost

Michael Frost — Thu, 17 Nov 2022 05:21:16 +0000

In reply to pchatty. But Mr Chatty, I'm talking about a family, so of course it's emotional. You seem to have mistaken this post being about same-sex marriage, but it's not. It's about what Baptist polity looks like and under what circumstances we choose to disaffiliate those who disagree with us on theological issues not covered in our core statement of faith.

By: pchatty

pchatty — Tue, 15 Nov 2022 04:15:14 +0000

A very emotive post with some good points but none the less based mostly on emotion.
Just as differing views on theology must be based on what Scripture is believed to actually say, surely a different (gay) view of marriage must appeal to Scripture likewise.
But here is the problem. There is no differing scriptural view of marriage from which to appeal. The Scriptural view of marriage is taught throughout Scripture & reinforced by Jesus himself. The question must be asked, is a gay view of marriage an upholding & affirmation of Jesus’s teachings on marriage & if not, doesn’t this represent a departure from his teachings.
In the practical, of course we are all aware that in practice there can be no literal marriage but between a man & a woman.
Just because the world & governments can choose to change definitions, this does not make it ok for the Church to follow likewise as our authority is based on Scripture, not man’s changing opinions.
The love & care & inclusion of the LGBT community is a different question & a very important one but unfortunately it does not include Scriptural marriage.
I too have been born & bred a Baptist & am a strong believer in family & what it takes to maintain unity. I am not part of the NSW Churches, but I pray God’s wisdom in the outcome.