Comments on: Do we really want to conserve all the values of that so-called “Christian era”?

By: Pete Chatfield

Pete Chatfield — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 10:36:00 +0000

In reply to Michael Frost. Been away for a while. Sorry Mike I cannot agree with your statements about me. You continually want to sum me up & put me in a box. You are good at that. I have no refusal to be open to other views on whatever spectrum you want to consider. Why do you think I read your column? I do celebrate good social progress but quite clearly you & I may differ on what is deemed good. As I said previously, you mentioned some good areas but failed dismally in recognizing there are many ungodly areas as well. So far you have mentioned the colour of my skin & my age as a means to belittle me without addressing any of my points. I get that a lot when trying to discuss differences of opinions with those whom stand with your leaning & tolerance for other opinions. I wish you well my Christian brother.

By: Maverick

Maverick — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 15:57:04 +0000

In reply to Robyn. I agree with Robyn as to surviving culture at large. And kindness to my neighbor whom ever they may be is my honest goal. However there will always be extremes that have to be dealt with and not ignored.

By: Michael Frost

Michael Frost — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 13:19:55 +0000

In reply to Pete Chatfield. You are so trapped in this left/right, conservative/progressive binary that you are blinded to the possibility of being able to both celebrate social progress for the disadvantaged and be pro life. There's a refusal in you to be open to the views of those you deem to be 'left' that is very unbecoming in an older man.

By: Pete Chatfield

Pete Chatfield — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 10:52:51 +0000

In reply to Michael Frost. Not at all Mike. I agree with you on that. "Yes let us by all means recognise the good progress some civilisations have made in some areas ..". I actually never said I want to go back!! Your Left progressive outlook is trying to put me in in a box. Once again there are changes for the worst & some for the better with which you do not compute. There is no way my 8 year old grand daughter should be told that she is free to choose which sex she would like to be at her age. If you think abortion on demand is a good thing then I would need to reassess where I think your christian values come from.

By: Michael Frost

Michael Frost — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 09:34:02 +0000

In reply to Pete Chatfield. If you were a woman, an Aboriginal, disabled, or LGBTIQ I'm certain you wouldn't be thinking you wanted to go back to the old days. Your white male privilege has blinded you to the value of social progress over the past 50 years.

By: Pete Chatfield

Pete Chatfield — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 06:40:03 +0000

Do we really have to accept all the values of the “progressive left”??
Some good thoughts there Mike but a little under reasoned though. Yes let us by all means recognise the good progress some civilisations have made in some areas but you seem to have missed “it” in your enthusiasm for progress.
…”I regularly hear people calling us back to the Christian values of our fathers’ generation.” The main reason people shake their heads & want to go back is because of the many places that progress has taken us & we don’t like it.
You talk about the overtures of “I love Lucy” & “Love thy neighbour” which you found oh so disgusting but you forgot to mention those wholesome TV programs & films we have progressed to. Now you can have as much “Sex in the city” as you like, “Married at first sight” or even “Bad mothers” just to mention a few. Your progress has even ushered in a sexual revolution with abortion or child murder on demand but who cares about a small inconvenience like that?
There can be a huge difference between “Christ’s values” & man’s values.
The conservative Christian rightly wants conservation of righteous biblical & Godly values, based on the truthful teaching of scripture from God & the life of Christ. Values & traditions formed by fallible men & women of Christian thinking are not necessarily Godly. Unfortunately a correct Christian value can be so easily distorted & thus mocked as a result of the practise of hypocritical living as you have pointed out.
“Instead of adopting an unthinking, knee-jerk reaction to all cultural change, and finding ourselves cast as perpetual naysayers and worry-warts, is it not possible for the church to embrace a more nuanced position on all this?”
That is quite a judgement from a progressive but the Church is very used to being wrongfully “cast” & judged by a world which cannot tolerate the righteousness of God & who want to call right wrong & wrong right. The conservative Church is not going to reinterpret or change scripture just to please the world or even yourself because you have had some sort of progressive enlightenment.

By: Rod Beer

Rod Beer — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 01:12:38 +0000

In reply to John Gilmore. Good one, John. Great to see your name and comments here.

By: Rod Beer

Rod Beer — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 01:08:56 +0000

What a well balanced, well considered article, Mike. My parents, fearful of the much touted “domino effect” thought it an honour for me to be conscripted to fight in Vietnam.
Fast forward forty years and I would have encouraged my son to be a conscientious objector.
Teaching “Thou shalt not kill” in Sunday School one week, and beginning training in operating an assortment of deadly weapons the next contributed to my PTSD as much as my experiences in the war zone.
Thank God it taught me to begin questioning the rampant authoritarianism and conservative fearmongering I grew up with.

By: Sue Brown

Sue Brown — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 21:30:43 +0000

As an isolated country bumpkin baby boomer, I had a great childhood, but we don’t need to bring back the good old days at all – much of it is alive and well –
We still hear (some) Christian leaders speaking out against same sex relationships who aren’t actively seeking redress for the abused, or to prevent abuse continuing –
In my work I visit many lovely Christians from all walks of life – many ‘believe our country is being overrun by .. refugees. Who are really here to take over and subjugate us all. Witness the facebook memes about refugees and foreign aid to judge if our society is prejudiced or not –
I am glad women no longer HAVE to be the homemaker – but I wish that vital role was celebrates more, whichever parent performs it, and valued properly.
I am sad for the women who weren’t able to be independent – and for the men, who were filled with guilt and shame for not being a sufficient provider so their wives had to work. I’m all the more astonished at the women in my own family – successful doctors, vets, property managers from as far back as 1920 –
We don’t need to bring back the good old days, and blindly follow, but I very much agree – we need to consider well what they did right, not just what they did wrong – analyse success as well as failure (ref Rasmus Ankersen).
Keep writing Mike!

By: Marj Kannegieter

Marj Kannegieter — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 20:43:18 +0000

In that times , my Mum was there for us when we came home and the smell in the kitchen was yummy and my mum helped with part time work and we were respectful to each other and our elderly were known as Aunt, uncle and Rev, or domineee, expression on grief and sex were silent and children innocent but conversation was on the meal times and bible read, with prayers., TV slowly distracted us.racial language not known in our household, just you were a hippie if the men’s hair was longer then the ears by Dads opinions and hardly had a sickie inhisworking life.